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	<title>Comments on: Annotated Data</title>
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	<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/</link>
	<description>A journal of no fixed aims or direction, by Leigh Dodds</description>
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		<title>By: Thoughts on Enterprise Linked Data &#171; Lost Boy</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Thoughts on Enterprise Linked Data &#171; Lost Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-398</guid>
		<description>[...] data they are putting their identifiers out into the wild. These identifiers become points for annotation and reuse by the community, creating liminal zones from which the enterprise can harvest and filter useful [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] data they are putting their identifiers out into the wild. These identifiers become points for annotation and reuse by the community, creating liminal zones from which the enterprise can harvest and filter useful [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vasiliy Faronov</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator>Vasiliy Faronov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 10:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-397</guid>
		<description>I want to publish an “annotation” about dbpedia:France on my own web server. Regardless of whether I use dbpedia:France or ex:France (owl:sameAs dbpedia:France) in my descriptions, consumers still need to discover those descriptions, and the only way for them to do so is to query a central indexer (Sindice and/or sameas.org).

This means that even in the *current* Linked Data web, the annotation aspect is not “linked” at all: you cannot discover the annotations of dbpedia:France by links alone. The nature of the URIs used does not affect this; it merely determines if you need an additional owl:sameAs step to interpret the annotations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to publish an “annotation” about dbpedia:France on my own web server. Regardless of whether I use dbpedia:France or ex:France (owl:sameAs dbpedia:France) in my descriptions, consumers still need to discover those descriptions, and the only way for them to do so is to query a central indexer (Sindice and/or sameas.org).</p>
<p>This means that even in the *current* Linked Data web, the annotation aspect is not “linked” at all: you cannot discover the annotations of dbpedia:France by links alone. The nature of the URIs used does not affect this; it merely determines if you need an additional owl:sameAs step to interpret the annotations.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-395</guid>
		<description>Hi Tom,

Good point re: simply adding data at someone&#039;s URI space. Linked Data publishers could usefully provide or enable this kind of feature, suitably qualified for trust-worthiness, as part of their publishing framework.

btw, I love the &quot;web as a cms&quot; concept, I think its a really important change in perspective for how organisations can engage with the web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tom,</p>
<p>Good point re: simply adding data at someone&#8217;s URI space. Linked Data publishers could usefully provide or enable this kind of feature, suitably qualified for trust-worthiness, as part of their publishing framework.</p>
<p>btw, I love the &#8220;web as a cms&#8221; concept, I think its a really important change in perspective for how organisations can engage with the web.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-394</guid>
		<description>Hi Richard,

Thanks for the comments, you make some good points. I&#039;d argue that there&#039;s still not enough of an understanding that creating new URI aliases and using owl:sameAs is not the only way to publish RDF data. I see little advice to the contrary.

Your point about surfacing data from existing applications is well taken, creating new URIs based on database keys may be the simplest approach. Although at some point you&#039;d expect there to be some alignment between URIs in, e.g. dbpedia. So starting from a perspective of &quot;tagging&quot; a local identifier with a public URI is equally valid.

The other thing to highlight is that some organization could have a valid and important role in the development of the web of data if they &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; focused on defining stable URIs for things -- governments might do this for example, enabling citizens and businesses to use these as points for common annotation. To some extent this is what is happening in the first phases of the development of the UK government linked data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments, you make some good points. I&#8217;d argue that there&#8217;s still not enough of an understanding that creating new URI aliases and using owl:sameAs is not the only way to publish RDF data. I see little advice to the contrary.</p>
<p>Your point about surfacing data from existing applications is well taken, creating new URIs based on database keys may be the simplest approach. Although at some point you&#8217;d expect there to be some alignment between URIs in, e.g. dbpedia. So starting from a perspective of &#8220;tagging&#8221; a local identifier with a public URI is equally valid.</p>
<p>The other thing to highlight is that some organization could have a valid and important role in the development of the web of data if they <i>only</i> focused on defining stable URIs for things &#8212; governments might do this for example, enabling citizens and businesses to use these as points for common annotation. To some extent this is what is happening in the first phases of the development of the UK government linked data.</p>
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		<title>By: Semantic web (19/12/09) &#171; pintiniblog</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator>Semantic web (19/12/09) &#171; pintiniblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-383</guid>
		<description>[...] Annotated Data (source: Planet RDF, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Annotated Data (source: Planet RDF, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: comment_bot</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>comment_bot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-381</guid>
		<description>(Richard, you may need to check the definition of &#039;couple&#039;)

Thanks Leigh, great essay. It would be unfortunate if publishing data in RDF becomes an exercise in bondage-and-discipline, which is what some linked data advocates (the new neats?) seem to advocate.

Horrible antipattern I&#039;ve seen rather too often:

 owl:sameAs dbpedia:Sesame_Street ;
  rdfs:label &quot;Sesame Street&quot;@en ; ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Richard, you may need to check the definition of &#8216;couple&#8217;)</p>
<p>Thanks Leigh, great essay. It would be unfortunate if publishing data in RDF becomes an exercise in bondage-and-discipline, which is what some linked data advocates (the new neats?) seem to advocate.</p>
<p>Horrible antipattern I&#8217;ve seen rather too often:</p>
<p> owl:sameAs dbpedia:Sesame_Street ;<br />
  rdfs:label &#8220;Sesame Street&#8221;@en ; &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-380</guid>
		<description>Quite right. You could also add data directly at someone else&#039;s URI eg: http://derivadow.com/2009/01/13/the-web-as-a-cms/ but I like the idea of simply annotating other people&#039;s URIs with RDF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite right. You could also add data directly at someone else&#8217;s URI eg: <a href="http://derivadow.com/2009/01/13/the-web-as-a-cms/" rel="nofollow">http://derivadow.com/2009/01/13/the-web-as-a-cms/</a> but I like the idea of simply annotating other people&#8217;s URIs with RDF.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Cyganiak</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-379</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Cyganiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-379</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion Leigh. Thanks for starting it. Couple of points.

First: The only reason why we can have this conversation today is because now we have quite a nice selection of existing, reasonably stable, well-managed, dereferenceable identifiers around, from DBpedia, Freebase, and hopefully soon from many governments and other public organisations. This wasn&#039;t the case two years ago. Two years ago, the conversation was: “Use a bNode, or use some unresolvable URI, or use the identifier for France that someone minted in their FOAF file, or mint my own.” Out of those, minting your own is clearly the best.

Second: Until quite recently, there was a widespread attitude that URI aliases is harmful, that the Semantic Web would be impossible to attain if we invent new identifiers rather than going to great lengths finding some existing canonical identifier. This attitude is slowly disappearing, luckily.

Third: If the backend system that you expose as RDF has its own mechanisms for identifier management, then you&#039;re really better off publishing your data attached to URIs that are based on these internal identifiers. Linking to other identifiers, which are managed independently, should be a separate step; especially if you use imperfect heuristics to discover the coreference.

Fourth: If your data is inherently connected to someone else&#039;s identifiers (e.g. because you annotated their identifiers in the first place, or because both of you use the same non-URI identifiers as a base, like motorway numbers), then I think it&#039;s reasonable to simply publish RDF documents that use those foreign identifiers.

Fifth: If you trust the owner of those foreign identifiers to be around longer than the expected lifetime of your dataset, then it&#039;s quite fine to base your data on their identifiers. If not, then you should manage your own identifiers and link to theirs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion Leigh. Thanks for starting it. Couple of points.</p>
<p>First: The only reason why we can have this conversation today is because now we have quite a nice selection of existing, reasonably stable, well-managed, dereferenceable identifiers around, from DBpedia, Freebase, and hopefully soon from many governments and other public organisations. This wasn&#8217;t the case two years ago. Two years ago, the conversation was: “Use a bNode, or use some unresolvable URI, or use the identifier for France that someone minted in their FOAF file, or mint my own.” Out of those, minting your own is clearly the best.</p>
<p>Second: Until quite recently, there was a widespread attitude that URI aliases is harmful, that the Semantic Web would be impossible to attain if we invent new identifiers rather than going to great lengths finding some existing canonical identifier. This attitude is slowly disappearing, luckily.</p>
<p>Third: If the backend system that you expose as RDF has its own mechanisms for identifier management, then you&#8217;re really better off publishing your data attached to URIs that are based on these internal identifiers. Linking to other identifiers, which are managed independently, should be a separate step; especially if you use imperfect heuristics to discover the coreference.</p>
<p>Fourth: If your data is inherently connected to someone else&#8217;s identifiers (e.g. because you annotated their identifiers in the first place, or because both of you use the same non-URI identifiers as a base, like motorway numbers), then I think it&#8217;s reasonable to simply publish RDF documents that use those foreign identifiers.</p>
<p>Fifth: If you trust the owner of those foreign identifiers to be around longer than the expected lifetime of your dataset, then it&#8217;s quite fine to base your data on their identifiers. If not, then you should manage your own identifiers and link to theirs.</p>
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		<title>By: robert forkel</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>robert forkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-378</guid>
		<description>minting URIs in your own domain or not is already an implementation detail, i&#039;d say. using HTTP URIs to identify things in the first place seems to be the big change. what i&#039;m typically confronted with are annotations of stuff that can&#039;t be identified unambigously - think &quot;as explained in Dodds 2009&quot;. so owl:sameAs or using the same URI in two annotations doesn&#039;t make much difference compared to teaching a machine the difference between &quot;Dodds 2009a&quot; and &quot;Dodds 2009b&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>minting URIs in your own domain or not is already an implementation detail, i&#8217;d say. using HTTP URIs to identify things in the first place seems to be the big change. what i&#8217;m typically confronted with are annotations of stuff that can&#8217;t be identified unambigously &#8211; think &#8220;as explained in Dodds 2009&#8243;. so owl:sameAs or using the same URI in two annotations doesn&#8217;t make much difference compared to teaching a machine the difference between &#8220;Dodds 2009a&#8221; and &#8220;Dodds 2009b&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.ldodds.com/blog/2009/12/annotated-data/comment-page-1/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldodds.com/blog/?p=411#comment-377</guid>
		<description>Eric,

I agree with you, but the usual discussion of how to publish Linked Data -- and I&#039;m as guilty of this as anyone -- doesn&#039;t explore notions that the URIs that we use to name things (Principle #1) may be in other domains. Or that &quot;looking up&quot; a URI (Principle #4) doesn&#039;t have to be a direct dereference or that URI, it may involve looking up that URI using a service like SameAs.org.

Its natural enough when putting together tutorials and frameworks for linked data publishing to focus on the mint your own URIs &amp; publish from those URIs approach, because that gets the core message across. Its also natural when there aren&#039;t many stable URIs to reuse.

But as things grow, the emphasis will natural change, and so as we encourage people to adopt the Linked Data style of publishing data, we need to encourage more annotation. Its not only simpler, its also side-steps a few issues, as I alluded to in the post.

I&#039;m also being a bit playful with the whole &quot;heresy&quot; thing.

Cheers,

L.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>I agree with you, but the usual discussion of how to publish Linked Data &#8212; and I&#8217;m as guilty of this as anyone &#8212; doesn&#8217;t explore notions that the URIs that we use to name things (Principle #1) may be in other domains. Or that &#8220;looking up&#8221; a URI (Principle #4) doesn&#8217;t have to be a direct dereference or that URI, it may involve looking up that URI using a service like SameAs.org.</p>
<p>Its natural enough when putting together tutorials and frameworks for linked data publishing to focus on the mint your own URIs &#038; publish from those URIs approach, because that gets the core message across. Its also natural when there aren&#8217;t many stable URIs to reuse.</p>
<p>But as things grow, the emphasis will natural change, and so as we encourage people to adopt the Linked Data style of publishing data, we need to encourage more annotation. Its not only simpler, its also side-steps a few issues, as I alluded to in the post.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also being a bit playful with the whole &#8220;heresy&#8221; thing.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>L.</p>
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